Thanks to Carlos for the excellent idea to make a post on Immigration! I just had lunch today with Wendy Brannen, from the Vidalia Onion Committee, and with Vidalia onion harvesting just around the corner, it reminds me of how much the farming community relies on immigration labor for their produce. I went to a meeting last year and the Georgia Department of Labor Commissioner was there to answer farmers' questions regarding changes to the immigration laws. The farmers who were at the meeting all seemed to want to do the right thing -- by the law and by their workers. One of the big points was that they need the labor and can't get it otherwise (without seasonal immigration help). And one of the larger farmers in the area stated that he couldn't even hire immigration help under about $10 per hour.
Personally, I think you should be legal to work in America. You should have to contribute tax dollars to the system in order to enjoy the benefits. But I also feel sorry for those who have been working here for years. Their children may be legal (since they were born here) but the parents may have to be deported one day. I think there should be some group to reach out to this huge population and work with them in attempts to make them legal citizens. I mean, America wasn't founded with only native people to start with. We were all immigrants at one time or another.
Give us your thoughts on the topic, what changes need to be made, etc....
Welcome
10 comments:
I completely agree a person should be legal in order to immigrate into the United States. However, we must all also understand that there has to be some method through which a person may become legalized. We cannot simply require that people be legal but then provide no feasible means to become legalized. Yes, there are visas that immigrants can apply for, but the possibility that a person who has little or no education, who wants to work as a farm hand, will get one is extremely small.
However, I am not advocating open boarders. I think what we should have earned legalization. Make certain that the person has no criminal record. Make certain that the person has been in the United States for some years without problems. Make certain that that person learns English. Once you have done so, I believe those people deserve becoming part of this country because we have to face the fact that certain industries need immigrants to earn profits while keeping goods at a relatively affordable price.
There is a group. The Catholic Diocese of Georgia has an outreach to assist these folks. So does the Southeast Georgia Community Project in Lyons.
Well said! I just agree with everyone who has posted here so far. And I agree with you that we should all remember what country we came from originally. It certainly wasn't from America!
The GA State Senate recently passed Senate Bill 15 by a vote of 40-8. This bill would mandate that people who have lived in Georgia for more than 30 days get a GA drivers' license in order to drive, and punish those who have licenses from other states after having lived in Georgia for 30 days. The penalties imposed would range from 2 days in jail, minimum, and a hefty fine, for the first offense, to a hefty fine and a year in jail, minimum, for the third and subsequent offenses. At first glance one may think, "well there is no problem with that." However, the people who do not have GA drivers licenses, and who may have licenses from other states, after the first 30 days of living in this state are undocumented immigrants. Why? B/c they cannot get one in GA as legal status is required. Again, at first glance one may think that there is no problem with this, but there is. As I indicated previously, immigrants are needed if we are to maintain our current booming economy, and they need licenses to get to and from work. Moreover, we need to give undocumented immigrants drivers licenses for security purposes. How is that possible? Let me explain.
In the past I read an article which indicated that the nationwide DMV database is the largest law enforcement database in the country with records on more adults than any other law enforcement database. State and Federal Agencies routinely turn to this mega database when conducting investigations. In fact, the Department of Homeland Security, yes DHS, admits that its own database is inferior to the DMV database, which includes information on those licensed, or previously licensed, to drive in the fifty states and DC.
By allowing undocumented people to have licenses, we would not only find out who they are, where they live and other personal information such as birth date and legal status but we would also have their picture and fingerprints. With this information, law enforcement will be better able to perform their job. If a crime were to occur, we would be able to locate those responsible, if it turns out that an undocumented alien did it, which we cannot do at this point in time.
Thus my question to all of you who read this is why are the people of this state allowing our legislators to pass such legislation? Is the goal not to find out as much about undocumented people as we can, whom we know little or nothing about?
The reason given by a majority of those who voted for the bill, to see who voted for the bill go to http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2007_08/votes/sv0016.htm, is that we should make it so hard for undocumenteds so that they will just leave. First, and foremost, do we really want them to leave? Second, even if we do are they really going to? Will they not just: (a) take public transportation, (b) hitch rides with friends who do have GA licenses, (c) walk, (d) or maybe even pay money to corrupt DMV officials who are willing to sell a license?
My point is that this state has many huge problems which require thought and action from our legislature to be wasting their time on such legislation.
I believe that a illegals should be finger printed and run through the system be put on file for future references, in case the are involved in any crime, if they have not established or made any efforts to become legal they should be deported. I work for the law enforcement, I would have to say a majority of complaints come in on the hispanic community from their loud music parties to drunk drivers. Mostly drunk driving. It's fine and dandy if they want to work and live here but they need to prove it. There lack of respect for the law and the communities aren't showing us that. Another thing I am a full-time mom and work full-time, and have my third child on the way. My husband works full-time also, his overtime is givin to him as comp time. We can's survive on the crap. While i have to pay taxes, why should i be paying for illegals healthcare and food. My family can't barely get assisstance. How is that fair to the hard working faimilies that are barely making ends meet. That are doing everything legally. I see people in the hispanic community come through the jail, and pay cash for their fines. any where from 145 to 3000 dollars. I don't know about you but i would be unforgiving in some illegal drunk just crashed in to my family. If he/she thought they had problems then.
I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIVE HERE, IF THEY HAVE BEEN HERE FOR NUMBEROUS OF YEARS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THEM HAVING TO PAY TAXES AND PAYING WHAT WE HAVE TO PAY. THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET ALL OF THE WELFARE THAT THEY GET. THEY SHOULD BE TREATED JUST AS WE ARE. AT LEAST THEY DO GET OUT THERE AND DO THE FIELD WORK. HOW MANY WHITES ARE BLACKS DO YOU SEE OUT THERE WORKING? NOT MANY AT ALL. I THINK IF THEY LIVE HERE THEY SHOULD BE TREATED JUST AS WE ARE AND BE AS FAIR TO THEM AS YOU WOULD US. YOU KNOW, THEY ARE TREATED ALOT WORSE THAN WE ARE. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAD THE THREE RACES GO THROUGH A ROAD BLOCK WITH NO LICENSES OR INSURANCE, WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD GET THROWED IN JAIL WITH A HIGH BOND. THINK ABOUT IT, IT WOULDN'T BE THE WHITES AND SOMETIMES NOT THE BLACKS EITHER. IT JUST DEPEND ON WHO THE PERSON IS! BUT THE HISPANICS WOULD SURE ENOUGH GO TO JAIL. AND ITS NOT FAIR. EVERY ONE SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME BECAUSE GOD MADE US ALL. ITS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
First of all, I have to say that I take issue with May 3rd Anonymous' comments. I will attempt to indicate the fallacies in her statements.
First, you indicate that illegals should be finger printed. That is fine. I agree. I also agree with Carlos. However, if you want them to come in to provide information about them, you will need to provide some incentive for them to come in. You cannot simply say this needs to happen. For instance, you could provide drivers licenses. By doing so, when they apply for one, one of the requirements would have to be to provide whatever information is deemed relevant. Thus we could get whatever identifying information is necessary but we cannot by simply maintaining the status quo.
Secondly, you say that they should be deported if no effort is made to legalize. However, you fail to realize that as of today, it is impossible for the 12 million or so undocumented persons to become legalized. If you want them to be legalized then provide a sensible means for them to become legalized. You cannot just say become legalized and then not provide a means for them to do so. It is absurd to think undocumented people prefer to remain in that status.
Third, you indicate that undocumented people have a lack of respect for law enforcement because they drive drunk. Why generalize? Are you certain that undocumented people are the only ones who drive drunk? If not, do the other races also not show a lack of respect? Just because a Caucasian or an African-American drives drunk should I then conclude that all people of that race are drunk drivers? There are bad apples in every race. EVERY RACE. In the past, I have interned at a public defenders' office in this state and let me tell you, Hispanics are not the only ones who drive drunk. In fact, from my experience I would venture to conclude that proportionately, the same number of Hispanics drive drunk as do Caucasians and African-Americans.
If you only provided undocumented people a way to get a drivers license then they would not drive without a license. If you only provided a path to legalization then they would become legalized. Thus, please do not generalize.
Next, you ask why should you pay taxes for undocumented people. Let me begin by saying that last year, the Internal Revenue Service reported that $8,000,000,000.00, yes that is eight billion with a B, was paid as taxes by people using false social security numbers. Now, I am no genius but I do not think there are many legal persons willing to pay more than their share of taxes by using a false social security number. Thus, one can conclude that this money as paid in by undocumented people. Moreover, to imply that all undocumented people do not pay taxes is simply wrong. For instance, they pay for consumer taxes. What does this mean? When they buy a car, they pay taxes. When they go to the grocery store, they pay taxes. When it comes time to renew their tag or to pay property taxes, they pay the tax. I do not think any grocery or other business has a line designated for undocumented people where if you line up in that line, you do not pay taxes. Thus, your assertion is simply wrong.
I must, however, acknowledge that there are some undocumented people may not pay their share of taxes, just like there are a portion of Americans who evade their responsibility to pay taxes. However, the only difference between these groups is that the Americans can be brought to justice because they have a social security number that identifies them and which we can use to verify that he/she is paying taxes. Thus, if you want to make certain that undocumented people pay taxes then allow them to become legalized. By doing so, you can bring them to justice if they evade their responsibility, just like many American citizens are brought to justice if they evade their responsibility.
Next you indicate that you work for law enforcement and say that you see people coming in and paying cash for their fines. Would it make you feel better if they paid with a check? But there is a problem because since they have no social security number they cannot open a bank account. To be honest, I do not see the problem with paying cash. Maybe they borrowed it. Maybe they saved the money. Regardless, they are paying their fines as mandated by law.
Lastly, you indicate that you would not like an undocumented person who is drunk to crash with you. Like I said previously, I do not think that proportionately, the number of Hispanics, overall, who drive drunk is higher than that of other races. Taking this in mind, would you mind it any less if the person who could crash with you were a US citizen. Enough said.
In conclusion, I agree with the last post. Race is an issue in the criminal justice system. You do not have to take my word for it. Just read the Baldus study. Just Google the terms Baldus Study. It is a credible study that was relied upon by a defendant in a Supreme Court Case.
Also, thanks to the Journal, and Allison, for providing this forum to share our views.
Here is my problem with the whole immigration debate: why punish those who had no choice in deciding to break the law and come to the United States. From personal experience, I can assure you that there are millions and millions of young people in this country who were too young to choose whether or not to come to this country. They were just brought here by their parents without a choice.
When they arrive in this country, the courts have decided that K-12 education must be provided to them. While they are in school they are taught what it means to be an American. They are schooled in the American value system and what makes this country great. They wake up each morning and pledge allegiance to the flag in our schools, our flag. Throughout this period you have teachers and administrators, if not encouraging, demanding that they attend school and tend to their studies. These children do as they are told and becomes model students for their schools, no disciplinary problems and honor students.
Then this illegal child gets to the twelfth grade and he is then told that that is as far as he will get. He is told that he could continue his post-secondary studies but that if he wishes to do so, he will not only not be eligible for any government help, i.e., Hope or Pell, but also will not be eligible for any loans or even for in state tuition. That means that if he wants to continue his studies and not become a burden to society, he will have to pay around $7,000.00 a semester instead of the in state fee of $1,000.00. Thus, what seemed to be a bright future becomes a future full of uncertainty, where society may in the end have to pick up the tab in the way of social services.
I think that sensible immigration reform is necessary for all those who prove themselves worthy. However, even if you do not want the overwhelming majority of the people who are in this country out of legal status to become legal, it is not only the Christian thing but the logical thing to have these kids become part of our country. They had no choice in breaking the law. Once, here, they did their best to adopt the American way of life and set of values. They strove to make something of themselves for many years with the belief that they could make something of themselves because they were told they could. They graduated at the top or near the top of their class and yet have nothing to show for it. That is just unfair.
Attempts have been made to provide relief to this group of individuals but resistance keeps blocking everything. For instance, for four sessions, what has come to be called the DREAM act has been introduced in the house and in senate and yet it has never gotten enough votes to even make it to the president. Now, this year, a new bill called the American DREAM act was introduced to provide relief but if nothing is done, it will suffer the same fate as its predecessor.
I often ponder why is it that the drop out rate among Hispanics is very high. I think that some students may come to the realization that school just will not get them anywhere because after they graduate from high school then they will be told that they have no where else to go. Also, why do police officers visit the homes of these students who drop out to speak to the parents or even present charges? If we do not want to help these people who will become assets to our community then why try to avoid the inevitable, i.e., their becoming a burden to society? Also, if a person had a child and this person decided to break the law, would we punish the child as well for being the parent's child? I think not.
Carlos, you are right on with your thinking. I know many hispanics that are in the 18-30 year old range that have been in this country for the majority of their lives. Most are as American as anyone else... in regards to their beliefs, mannerisms, language and, above all, consumerism. How stressful it must be to grow up as an undocumented alien in this country. The teenage years are hard enough without the added anxiety that would go along with being "illegal". No drivers license. No social security number... your mother brought you here when you were 5... you went all the way through the school system and now you can't get a decent job because you don't have a social... on top of that an increasingly hostile response by your "home" state is making it hard to even live there anymore. The US government turned a blind eye to the issue for decades. Maybe finally some real progress can be made. The US needs to tighten up the borders and give the current undocumented aliens a path to legality... if not citizenship. People are suffering. Each restrictive law that the numbskulls try to get passed in Atlanta also effect the "legal" residents. There are already laws against being an illegal immigrant. I wish more people would think about that before they encourage their legislators. I personally would be offended if I had to prove MY citizenship to some bureaucrat each time I needed a service or benefit. If for some reason I lose my drivers license and birth certificate I guess I could be deported back to Scotland... where one of my GGGG Grandfathers came from. Oh well.
Illegal immigration is a problem in this country and has been for many years. Everyone has HIS/HER idea of a solution but all of the ideas are all or nothing. You either send them back to where they came from or you give them amnesty and let them become citizens. No one has a solution for making the problem fair for every citizen. Here's a point to ponder. A young mother of 3 named Kathy Taylor was murdered in Lyons Georgia and her body was hidden under a porch for a year before she was found. The police and GBI know it was an undocumented migrant worker who killed her but they have no way of locating him because he came and left town in just a couple of days. Noone knew him so he just slipped away into the abyss. Now, years down the road, illegal immigrants are given the chance to become citizens. Does this man become a citizen? How many crimes has he commited just like the murder of Kathy that he was never arrested for. If he hasn't been caught yet does that mean he would be a good citizen. What if he does become legal and commits another murder? Will the citizens of the country who opened their doors to him spend the next 40 or 50 years supporting him while he sits in a prison. It's easy for us to sit back and say what should be done but giving legal status to illegal immigrants just because they have come here to work is ridiculous. I say set a time limit for all illegal immigrants to apply for legalization. Those who choose not to apply, no matter how long they have been here, deport them and make them start the process like they should have to begin with. If they really want to become legal citizens and get their share of the American dream, then they should be willing to take the proper steps. For those who do apply, do EXTENSIVE background checks both in this country and their home country. If they have extensive criminal backgrounds, send them home. Those who are allowed to stay, set a limit on government benefits such as food stamps, welfare and Medicaid. Say maybe they are requird to work in this country and pay taxes for a set amount of time before they can qualify for these benefits. That shouldn't be a problem since they are paid very well and the only reason they are here is because whites and blacks WON'T DO THE WORK THEY DO. I've never had a problem with the migrant workers. I worked for a few years in a tavern that many of them frequented on the weekends. There were fights and even a couple of killings but basically if they were treated right then there were no problems. Then Kathy was murdered. She was my friend and her senseless killing was done by a migrant worker and in my opinion, giving them legal status because they have been here a while or because they want the DREAM is like spitting in her face. Oh, and one more example. The Mexican gentleman who was found beaten to death in a ditch on Highway 152 just past the Ohoopee River a few weeks ago was murdered by two migrant workers who have been renting from the same person for MANY years when they came to work the onions. They have been in this country doing the work that whites and blacks won't do for years. Do we let them have legal status? What if they hadn't been seen by witnesses. Would they have just moved on and become legal in another state? This is just my thoughts and ideas and like all other opinions, they don't matter much except to the person to whom they belong. Just please don' say they deserve to be legalized because some of them don't and until we can find a way to weed out this problem then either send them back now and start over legally or required that they register with Homeland Security so that we can locate the trouble makers and criminals. Every legal citizen of this country can be located by the government in a matter of minutes. Why not illegals?
Post a Comment